Arkroyal
Lt. Commander
I'm a historian, not an engineer![ss:Federation]
Posts: 440
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Post by Arkroyal on Feb 26, 2010 11:50:03 GMT -6
Hell yeah, I'd love to be as sassy as Janeway...
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edify
Lt. Jr. Grade
Posts: 150
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Post by edify on Feb 27, 2010 20:23:32 GMT -6
Janeway No Way, Excuse the expression, but she had more BALLS that most of the Captains Keep in mind, we all have opinions and everyone else's opinion is just as valid as yours. The question here is who is the worst, in your opinion. You said who wasn't the worst, so who is the worst, in your opinion?
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kynan101
Ensign
[ss:Federation]
Posts: 83
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Post by kynan101 on May 15, 2010 3:50:55 GMT -6
picard and archer
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Atoz 77
Vice Admiral
[M:0]
[ss:Insurrection]
Posts: 4,065
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Post by Atoz 77 on May 17, 2010 7:43:14 GMT -6
Picard and Archer were the worst? What makes you say that, Kynan?
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Arkroyal
Lt. Commander
I'm a historian, not an engineer![ss:Federation]
Posts: 440
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Post by Arkroyal on May 26, 2010 11:31:46 GMT -6
I don't have a "worst" personally. I could argue the case each way for all five of them - they each faced different scenarios. Had you thrown say Sisko into the Delta Quadrant how do you think he'd have coped with the Maquis? Equally if Picard had had to enter the Expanse and make the choices Archer did would he have made them? Would Kirk have got DS9 blown up? Would Janeway have matched Kirk in his circumstances? Would Archer have been able to deal with Q?
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Luke
Commander
[ss:Cool Blue]
Posts: 1,087
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Post by Luke on Jun 2, 2010 10:38:46 GMT -6
There is no worst. They all had their good points. They made mistakes but everyone does.
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Post by andrewlee on Jun 2, 2010 15:52:20 GMT -6
I don't think of any of the Captains listed in this poll as "The Worst!" I like some better than others and as Luke mentioned They all had their moments and made their mistakes! If I were to say who the worst Captain was, it would be the Cadet Captain Waters from DS9's "Valiant" who foolishly went after that Dominion battle ship and got all but one of his crew killed!!
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Arkroyal
Lt. Commander
I'm a historian, not an engineer![ss:Federation]
Posts: 440
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Post by Arkroyal on Jun 4, 2010 12:12:40 GMT -6
I'm going to have to watch that episode and form my own opinion - which one was he in?
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Post by andrewlee on Jun 4, 2010 16:51:42 GMT -6
I'm going to have to watch that episode and form my own opinion - which one was he in? DS9 "The Valiant" Jake Sisko, and Nog are saved from a Jem Hadar attack ship while in a runabout by the USS Valiant, a Defiant class chip. The meet the "Red Squad Cadet crew who had survived and attack that killed all the regular officers and crew. The Captain who was badly wounded, promoted Waters from Senior Cadet to Captain before he died.
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Post by chilidog on Jun 21, 2010 19:05:28 GMT -6
@ Stark
Dude Whaaa!?? "The ends justify the means" is an expression used as an excuse to commit horrible acts. It is the excuse that the Nazis (and Communists) used to justify the murder of hundreds of thousands of people (millions really). It's not a good thing, nor something to be admired.
Your original example is way off too. Your WWII one... it is not comparable to what Archer did (tho to be honest I can't remember that episode exactly). Out of your three options in your example you choose the full-out attack. You are completely right in the choice of action but wrong in your assumption that this act is in anyway morally evil.
It is not the ends that justify an all-out attack, it is the actions and choices committed by the Nazis that justify it. The initiation of violence, the war, the atrocities, the conquests, the slaughter of hundreds-of-thousands of innocents. THAT needed to be stopped.
NOT ONE PART of the choice to attack the village is morally evil, it is in fact morally right to attack the village with full force. Death of innocent civilians will occur, this is a fact of war. The BLAME for their deaths however, rests solely on those responsible for initiating the violence – the Nazis in this case.
In other words – It was the actions of the Nazis that resulted in the death of innocents. THEY are the murderers.
Archer however was (to my recollection) attacking completely innocent people. This was a case where "the ends justify the means" excuse would be used, and is morally wrong.
Here is a benchmark: If the means involve the murder (or ANY human rights violation really) of a single person, then there is NO justification for the ends and the act is immoral.
As an aside, had the soldiers in your example capitulated to the Nazis and not attacked, or not attacked with their full arsenal, they would have set a precedent that using civilians as a shield works. Setting that precedent would have been morally reprehensible.
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Kaiza Killa
Ensign
Liberate Tutume Ex Infernis[ss:Insurrection]
Posts: 86
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Post by Kaiza Killa on Jul 20, 2010 16:47:54 GMT -6
I will not vote for now as I am unfamiliar with the following captains:
Benjamin Sisko. Jonathan Archer.
Edit: Regarding the post above mine made by "chilidog".
If there were mention of Nazi's before your post then forgive me as I may have overlooked it. But I just need to mention that the constant reference made to the Nazi's, as an attempt to emotionally debilitate people into buying your argument, I believe is somewhat weak and lacks the subtly that a good argument should have.
H+
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Arkroyal
Lt. Commander
I'm a historian, not an engineer![ss:Federation]
Posts: 440
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Post by Arkroyal on Jul 21, 2010 20:14:07 GMT -6
I believe it is known as "Godwin's Law" by the way: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. "
Random throw in especially as I have no opinion on the worst as previously stated. XD
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Kaiza Killa
Ensign
Liberate Tutume Ex Infernis[ss:Insurrection]
Posts: 86
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Post by Kaiza Killa on Jul 22, 2010 4:18:22 GMT -6
I believe it is known as "Godwin's Law" by the way: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. Indeed. I should have expected as much.H+
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JADIS
Lieutenant
[ss:Cloak]
Posts: 372
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Post by JADIS on Sept 30, 2010 15:31:55 GMT -6
I don't think of any of the Captains listed in this poll as "The Worst!" I like some better than others and as Luke mentioned They all had their moments and made their mistakes! If I were to say who the worst Captain was, it would be the Cadet Captain Waters from DS9's "Valiant" who foolishly went after that Dominion battle ship and got all but one of his crew killed!! Agree that they all had their "bad" moments or decisions but let me phrase the question this way - If you were going to be assigned to a ship, which one would you not want to be assigned to because of the captain?
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Atoz 77
Vice Admiral
[M:0]
[ss:Insurrection]
Posts: 4,065
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Post by Atoz 77 on Oct 1, 2010 7:55:53 GMT -6
If you put it that way, I'd probably go with Sisko. Sometimes he didn't seem like he really knew what he was doing.
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