Baggy52
Commander
Where am I? WHEN AM I?!?[ss:Solar Flare]
Posts: 968
|
Post by Baggy52 on Feb 5, 2008 15:36:42 GMT -6
And of course I am lost in all this.
|
|
Luke
Commander
[ss:Cool Blue]
Posts: 1,087
|
Post by Luke on Feb 6, 2008 12:00:38 GMT -6
*We didn't see much evidence of technology, but of course that doesn't mean anything.*For that matter, there's the Matrix argument. Even the cell could have been an illusion, and he spent most of the time stretched out on lab table somewhere with a gas mask over his face!
|
|
Luke
Commander
[ss:Cool Blue]
Posts: 1,087
|
Post by Luke on Feb 6, 2008 12:01:44 GMT -6
*And of course I am lost in all this. * Lost how? Becasue you don't know the episode we're talking about?
|
|
Atoz 77
Vice Admiral
[M:0]
[ss:Insurrection]
Posts: 4,065
|
Post by Atoz 77 on Feb 8, 2008 9:08:51 GMT -6
"The Matrix argument" -- I like that. But if that were the case, he should have awakened on the lab table at some point. It's obvious that the Talosian's control over Pike's mind wasn't absolute -- like the time he lunged at the Keeper and bumped into the transparent wall.
Which brings me to another speculation -- the Keeper stated that their intention was to repopulate the surface of their planet. But what difference would that make to the Talosians themselves? They would still be extinct. Unless -- given their mental development, maybe they had the technology to actually project their minds permanently into another person's body! Maybe that's what their ultimate goal was (until Pike threatened to blow them all sky-high with his phaser).
|
|
Luke
Commander
[ss:Cool Blue]
Posts: 1,087
|
Post by Luke on Feb 9, 2008 11:06:37 GMT -6
Or maybe they were planning to genetically cross themselves with Pike's descendants. We'll never know.
The Squire of Gothos -- In my old fan club, we had endless speculations about whether Trelane was a young Q. Do you have any thoughts on this?
|
|
Atoz 77
Vice Admiral
[M:0]
[ss:Insurrection]
Posts: 4,065
|
Post by Atoz 77 on Feb 11, 2008 8:34:11 GMT -6
I've never been in a fan club, so I've never had the opportunity of debating questions like this. That's why I joined this forum in the first place, and that's why I'm glad you showed up, Luke.
Personally, I'm inclined to go against the idea. The Q we have seen never show the slightest need to use technology of any sort. Trelane did. It's true he was able to act even after Kirk had destroyed his mirror machine, but he still needed it, at least at first. I imagine the machine as sort of like "training wheels", helping him to create the more complex objects. Obviously he didn't have any problem with simple objects like nooses and swords.
|
|
Luke
Commander
[ss:Cool Blue]
Posts: 1,087
|
Post by Luke on Feb 12, 2008 10:15:03 GMT -6
My fan club sort of folded up after Next Gen was cancelled. Well, technically it's still around, but the main people who used to discuss the episodes drifted off (in some cases moving to different areas, for various reasons). And when I tried to get up a discussion group to talk about Voyager, no one was interested, so I just kind of wandered away from the club, too.
I'd forgotten how much I missed talking about this stuff!
|
|
Luke
Commander
[ss:Cool Blue]
Posts: 1,087
|
Post by Luke on Feb 12, 2008 10:17:06 GMT -6
Anyway, Trelane.... Somebody suggested that he just cobbled up the mirror machine, not because he really needed it, but because he was a lazy git and didn't want to be bothered maintaining his castle by mental energy. I have to admit that's an attractive idea, and seems to fit in with his personality.
|
|
Atoz 77
Vice Admiral
[M:0]
[ss:Insurrection]
Posts: 4,065
|
Post by Atoz 77 on Feb 14, 2008 8:34:34 GMT -6
It does, now that you point that out to me. To tell you the truth, I've never particularly liked Trelane. The whole episode had a sort of "Twilight Zone" feel to it, that I never liked.
|
|
Luke
Commander
[ss:Cool Blue]
Posts: 1,087
|
Post by Luke on Feb 15, 2008 11:43:03 GMT -6
Okay, one of the reasons they said he must be a Q is when Dr. McCoy scanned him with his tricorder and said he didn't get any reading at all. He just didn't exist! So he must have been more than just your everyday run of the mill highly evolved energy being like the Organians, right? I mean, right?
|
|
Atoz 77
Vice Admiral
[M:0]
[ss:Insurrection]
Posts: 4,065
|
Post by Atoz 77 on Feb 18, 2008 8:40:16 GMT -6
There could be another reason for that. There are regular tricorders and there are medical tricorders (which presumably have certain types of scans already pre-programmed into them). McCoy is a doctor, and I would presume that if he scanned someone, he would be looking for biological factors -- DNA patterns, metabolic rates, and so on. These things wouldn't have shown up even on an energy being like an Organian, so that's what McCoy was reporting.
If Spock had done the scan, he might have scanned for energy patterns, and detected something, but we don't know because he didn't get the chance.
But that's an interesting point. How would the Q differ from a -- what did you say? -- "run of the mill highly evolved energy being"?
|
|
Luke
Commander
[ss:Cool Blue]
Posts: 1,087
|
Post by Luke on Feb 22, 2008 12:01:17 GMT -6
Well, somebody said that the Q didn't evolve from organic beings into....whatever they are. Q once said they'd existed ever since the beginning of the universe. They're like a fundamental force of nature or something.
|
|
Atoz 77
Vice Admiral
[M:0]
[ss:Insurrection]
Posts: 4,065
|
Post by Atoz 77 on Feb 28, 2008 8:31:28 GMT -6
To tell you the truth, I always thought the idea of an organic beings evolving into an energy form was a bit bizarre. Evolution is a gradual, nearly imperceptible process (unless you count punctuated equilibrium). I find it really hard to imagine any step-by-step scenario where organic cells might spontaneously mutate into an energy form. There was a Next Generation episode which actually depicted a race in the process of just such a mutation, but it was totally unconvincing. It was about like Johnny Storm suddenly bursting into flame!
There certainly are beings made up of pure energy (like Trelane's people and the Organians, unless they are the same race), but I imagine they would have gone down that evolutionary path from the very beginning of their conception.
|
|
Luke
Commander
[ss:Cool Blue]
Posts: 1,087
|
Post by Luke on Feb 29, 2008 11:35:55 GMT -6
I'm not used to thinking like an exobiologist, but now that you mention it, that does seem a little funny. I guess I've thought of it as like the Ancients did on Stargate, you know "ascending to a higher plane", or reaching as stage of evolution where they could change back and forth from organic beings to energy beings, and then eventually staying energy beings all the time. But even that sounds a little suspect, now that I think about it.
|
|
Atoz 77
Vice Admiral
[M:0]
[ss:Insurrection]
Posts: 4,065
|
Post by Atoz 77 on Mar 3, 2008 8:40:10 GMT -6
I think that whole "ascending to a higher plane" stuff it the result of a big misunderstanding of the way life evolves.
|
|