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Post by monastic on Jul 11, 2012 17:05:11 GMT -6
"This Side Of Paradise" is my 2nd favorite next to "Devil In the Dark." The other day,I was talking to a friend, and the question was raised about the effect of the Omicron Ceti spores. Spock's euphoric state was induced by the spores artificially, so does that mean that the love he felt for Leila was also artificial? The answer is Not as clear as it might seem. So that's the question I raise--was Spock's love for Leila artificial or genuine?
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jul 13, 2012 8:00:47 GMT -6
I was trying to think where we discussed this before... Anyway, speaking as a science officer, I'm sure you're aware that "love" is a biochemical glandular reaction to certain external stimuli. The spores generated the stimulus artificially, as a means to control their hosts, so in that sense the euphoric state was artificial. But I think it's also obvious that Spock had a certain amount of attraction to her anyway, which he kept under control. The reason I say this is that most of the people affected didn't seem to fall in love with one another left, right and center. Only Spock.
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Luke
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Post by Luke on Jul 13, 2012 13:05:38 GMT -6
I was trying to think where we discussed this before... I thinkit might have been your old Exobiolgy thread, admiral. Did you ever wonder if maybe a full blood Vulcan or somebod who'd been through Kolinar might have been able to resist the spores?
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jul 16, 2012 8:23:44 GMT -6
Thank you, Luke. I had totally forgotten about that! Seeing that I started that thread when I was an Ensign, I suppose that's understandable!
That's a good question though. I would say, all in all, no. Because the spores seemed to completely suppress the higher order thinking of their hosts. Their victims didn't walk around like zombies, but they were in sort of a endorphin-induced daze. Even a Vulcan would need to be aware enough to WANT to resist them, and the spores kept them from doing that.
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jul 16, 2012 8:25:56 GMT -6
Getting back to my earlier theme, look under the Holodeck section and find our Fan Fiction sub-forum. There's a short story I posted a long time ago called "Remember..." which coincidentally touches on this very thing. At one point, T'Pana says that one of the reasons Vulcans avoid strong emotions is because they originate biochemically, endorphins in the case of lust and infatuation. That makes them false, and they soon fade away. Genuine affection or friendship on the other hand, result from long familiarity with a person, and the longer you know someone the deeper they can become.
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Post by Luke on Jul 18, 2012 8:17:06 GMT -6
so your saying a Vulcan could resist but the spores short circuit his thinking so that he doesn't WANT to?
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jul 20, 2012 7:59:42 GMT -6
Essentially, yes. In "All Our Yesterdays", when McCoy pointed out that Spock was behaving emotionally, he responded, "This is impossible," and clamped the mask back down again. In "TSoP" even when it was pointed out to him, he didn't care. Obviously the spores were interfering with his higher cognitive functions.
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Post by Luke on Jul 25, 2012 7:35:17 GMT -6
And the euphoria was false but th underlying attratction he felt for her was real? I'll buy that.
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jul 26, 2012 7:32:43 GMT -6
That's what I think. There was a tiny bit of attraction, so little that Spock would normally be able to ignore it. The euphoria caused by the spores just inflated it to the point he couldn't ignore it. So... real or not real? A little bit of both I'd say.
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Luke
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Post by Luke on Aug 16, 2012 7:51:31 GMT -6
Okay here's a question: why didn't the spores affect animals? Any guesses on that?
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Post by Atoz 77 on Aug 17, 2012 7:33:47 GMT -6
It could be because their brains aren't complex enough, but the spores really didn't seem to care about that. Who knows what their ultimate goal was in controlling people, but the short term goal seemed to be simply to make sure their hosts were motivated to keep them.
My guess is that animals have too many adrenalin surges, the fight or flight response.
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Post by Luke on Aug 20, 2012 9:16:17 GMT -6
so they end up killing the spores? that makes sense I guess.
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Post by Atoz 77 on Aug 24, 2012 8:12:03 GMT -6
Or it could be that the spores act on a specific part of the brain which just wasn't as highly developed in animals. We have to ask ourselves at this point just what the spores got out of the symbiosis, and I'm afraid there is insufficient data for that.
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Post by Luke on Aug 25, 2012 8:50:10 GMT -6
Like the children. YOu'd think after what was it three years? they would have had some anklebiters running around. I guess the spores didnt work on them either.
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Post by Atoz 77 on Aug 29, 2012 10:49:29 GMT -6
I have to wonder how the spores kept the Berthold radiation from killing you. Presumably by enhancing your own body's ability to resist the radiation, or quickly repairing cell damage and so on. In that case, small babies and animals might just not have the ability to fight off the radiation as well. And that's why we didn't see any.
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