Spock
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Post by Spock on Jun 9, 2010 11:12:58 GMT -6
seems that they always get out right before the shuttle explodes. how convenient Most shuttles have a backup power for emergency systems like that. Over the years, they stressed on the fact of having backup systems/power for the transporters to make them 10x safer, even if their is a power loss
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jun 11, 2010 8:02:27 GMT -6
I would think that a shuttlecraft already has pretty much all its power allocation accounted for, and wouldn't have that much redundancy.
I think that in a situation like that, it makes sense for the emergency transporter to automatically link to another transporter at the safe location, so that if it loses power, the other transporter takes over.
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Luke
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Post by Luke on Jun 16, 2010 10:45:07 GMT -6
That kind of figures, sir.
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Post by chilidog on Jun 21, 2010 16:35:45 GMT -6
Transporters kind of creep me out. Basically they break your physical matter down, convert it to energy, store and ‘transport’ that data to another location, and then rebuild you from the information. Now I always think, who is to say the person at the other end is actually the same you. It’s possible that you are pretty much disintegrated (killed) and then a new you is rebuilt from the data. The person’s life who stepped onto the pad is suddenly ended, and the life of the duplicate suddenly starts. Tho the duplicate would never know that it happened because he has all the same stored memories. (Sort of like that episode with the Riker duplicate.) Also, this makes me think... Starfleet should have found the toughest, smartest Klingon warrior they could, and the most skilled Starfleet pilot they had, etc. Then created an army of transporter duplicates to fight the dominion. LOL
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Luke
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Post by Luke on Jun 23, 2010 11:37:19 GMT -6
Yeah, in the old fan club I used to be a member of we used to argue about whether you still had a soul after the first time you used a transporter. If you have a soul that is how does it know to join up with your duplicated body? We used to argue for hours about that one.
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jun 25, 2010 8:04:09 GMT -6
That would be an interesting question. I personally am a materialist. Whatever "soul" we have is a function of our physical brains, so assuming it is reproduced exaclty, our "soul" is the same too.
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jun 25, 2010 8:05:03 GMT -6
Also, this makes me think... Starfleet should have found the toughest, smartest Klingon warrior they could, and the most skilled Starfleet pilot they had, etc. Then created an army of transporter duplicates to fight the dominion. LOL Transporter duplicates? I can think of about a dozen moral objections to this, even if it were technologically possible.
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Post by chilidog on Jun 25, 2010 13:21:38 GMT -6
"I personally am a materialist. Whatever "soul" we have is a function of our physical brains, so assuming it is reproduced exaclty, our "soul" is the same too."
I'm with you on that one. But still, that doesn't say it's the same you at the other end and not just a duplicate that goes on.
"Transporter duplicates? I can think of about a dozen moral objections to this, even if it were technologically possible."
It's got to be technologically possible... you'd think they could figure out how to replicate what happened to Riker. As for the moral objections sure, I was only kidding.
But now that you mention it, let me play Devil's advocate... If a person were to come forward and say "Hey I want to fight, duplicate me." What are the moral problems here? The duplicates will all have the same memories, made the same choice, and in essence be the same person who joined the army. This isn't like cloning (ala Star Wars) where the clones had no choice, or engineered like the Jem'Hadar and forced to fight. Every single one of the duplicates would have made the free choice.
(How do you guys do that quote thing?)
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jun 28, 2010 7:33:42 GMT -6
It's got to be technologically possible... you'd think they could figure out how to replicate what happened to Riker. As far as I know, no one has figured out exactly why that happened. Transporters disintegrate matter that already exists and reintegrate it someplace else, but even a replicator doesn't create matter from nothing. Q might be able to do this, but as far as I know, it's still beyond Federation technology. The Federation is based upon individual rights. This is why the Borg were such a threat. Duplicating people en masse would destroy the essence of the individual. If a person volunteers to fight, fine. But what you're talking about is volunteering to be duplicated, cloned essentially. If someone volunteers for that, I would place him under psychiatric observation.
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jun 28, 2010 7:38:15 GMT -6
(How do you guys do that quote thing?) We use the "Quote" button, in the upper right hand corner of the other guy's post. You'll notice that the text editor then gives the entire post inside
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Luke
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Post by Luke on Jun 30, 2010 11:41:30 GMT -6
*But now that you mention it, let me play Devil's advocate... If a person were to come forward and say "Hey I want to fight, duplicate me." What are the moral problems here?* If youre going to use transprot duplication why mess around with people? Run off say 10 copies of Data, hand over nine of them to Bruce Maddox and let him do what he wants.
Oh but then you'd have the same moral problem. Each one of them would think he was the original with all the rights of the original. Big problem.
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jul 6, 2010 8:08:17 GMT -6
And what do you do with this army of duplicates once the war is over?
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Post by chilidog on Feb 13, 2012 2:53:45 GMT -6
Holy cow, I just randomly came across this thread, while reading through I realized I posted in here. LOL. I checked my username and password list and sure enough found my info! I think I went on vacation or something and promptly forgot about this conversation, sorry guys!
So to pick up where it left off...
The technological problems in creating duplicates – I can't see this being a big problem. The transporter converts matter into pure energy, records the 'blue print' of that matter, then rebuilds the energy back into matter following the info from the 'blue print'. The Enterprise seems to have a limitless source of energy; it's not a stretch to feed energy into the transporter and create duplicates using that energy and the original 'blue print'.
The individual rights issue, no problem there either, just because you are a duplicate is no reason to lose your individual rights. Not really sure why you guys would assume that? Neither of the two Rikers lost their rights. A duplicate is still an individual and subject to the same rights as everyone else. No one is talking about creating a slave army here; they would function like any other star fleet officer.
And what to do with them after the war? Same thing as any other officer, they go back to regular duties, or what ever else they want to do. It’s a big galaxy, there is plenty of room.
Creating Data duplicates would be the best of the best, the only problem I could foresee is the possibility of some genius writing a of virus code that would get control of the duplicate Datas, as has happened to Data before. That would cause big problems.
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Feb 13, 2012 8:59:10 GMT -6
The technological problems in creating duplicates – I can't see this being a big problem. The transporter converts matter into pure energy, records the 'blue print' of that matter, then rebuilds the energy back into matter following the info from the 'blue print'. The Enterprise seems to have a limitless source of energy; it's not a stretch to feed energy into the transporter and create duplicates using that energy and the original 'blue print'. I think it is a BIG stretch. The Enterprise doesn't have a "limitless source" of energy obviously. Yes, but just look at the problems the Riker duplication produced with just one individual. And you want to create whole "armies" of duplicates? Maybe you don't remember "The Alternative Factor", where Lazarus found out that he had a duplicate in an alternate universe and it drove him insane. I just think it would cause far more problems than it would solve. People have value as individuals; you seem to be thinking of them as just weapons to be copied and used.
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Post by chilidog on Feb 13, 2012 12:29:47 GMT -6
C'mon man! Be honest! Lol, the Enterprise has energy enough to replicate food daily for what like a thousand crew members? They easily have enough energy to make duplicates. If they don't then they could access energy from a star or something – the point being that obviously getting raw energy isn't a big problem in the Star Trek universe. (Not that the creating duplicates operation would even be carried out on the Enterprise.)
Neither Riker knew there was a duplicate, it was not intentional. If someone came forward and made the free deliberate choice to be duplicated that would be different. They know that it is happening and they know the results of that choice.
Of course "people have value as individuals", that value doesn't diminish with duplicates. Both Rikers became their own unique individuals, eventually with quite strong different values I would say. Also remember that soldiers are a resource, regardless of whether they are regular officers or duplicates – they know it, they sign-up for it. That is the nature of being in an organization like Star Fleet. The result of creating an army of duplicates would be an overnight increase in those resources, which would result in a quicker end to the war and many many lives saved. Remember, we are creating duplicates of the best of the best, they would avoid being killed better than others and kill the enemy better.
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