Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Aug 23, 2008 8:51:03 GMT -6
I just watched "The Apple" (remastered), and it brought up an interesting question. Kirk and Spock disagreed about whether turning off Vaal was a violation of the Prime Directive or not. What do you think?
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Post by andrewlee on Aug 23, 2008 12:53:19 GMT -6
Atoz. I have not seen this episode for a long time and vaguely remember it. As far as for a violation of the prime directive, I am not sure. Sometimes it comes down to a judgment call when the situation could easily go either way.
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Post by THE CAKE IS A LIE! on Aug 23, 2008 17:39:54 GMT -6
I need to see it again first...
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Aug 25, 2008 7:54:00 GMT -6
Okay, take your time...
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JADIS
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Post by JADIS on Aug 25, 2008 20:34:23 GMT -6
Well, technically they did interfere...
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Post by andrewlee on Aug 26, 2008 19:00:56 GMT -6
Yes we did interfere. I am curious about the effects the interference had on those people. I know of no follow up stories about them. Are there any?
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Aug 29, 2008 7:54:25 GMT -6
In the Star Trek comic book, there was a follow-up story, but you can't really consider that valid.
Certainly they did interfere. The question is whether the interference was warranted by the Prime Directive. Was this really a viable society, or was it an unnatural situation? I think we'd all agree that in the end Kirk was right. But why was he right?
McCoy's opinion was that it wasn't a viable society because the people hadn't progressed. I agree with Spock. Where is it written that you have to progress? There are aboriginal tribes on Earth right now (deep in the rain forest) which are still living a basically Stone Age hunter/gatherer existance. Do we go in and tell them they have to progress? Of course we don't.
I think the line was crossed when Vaal instructed the Feeders of Vaal to murder. Up until then, you could agree with Spock that it was a case of reciprocal altruism going on. (Vaal does something for them, they do something in return.) But at the point Vaal instructed them to murder, it was only looking after itself.
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JADIS
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Post by JADIS on Aug 30, 2008 19:31:20 GMT -6
Hmmm, I'm gonna have to rummage through my Star Trek DVDs and find this episode. You've peeked my interest in seeing it again. I vaguely remember the details in the story - just the overview of the ep. but if Vaal wasn't indigenous to the planet then I believe Kirk and the Enterprise didn't cross or break the Prime Directive.
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Sept 2, 2008 8:26:18 GMT -6
Vaal was a machine, most of it underground. It had to have been built by somebody, the question is Who? Was it built by the Vaalians themselves, whose decendants then forgot about it? Where the Vaalians transplanted there? These are fascinating questions in their own right, of course, but the main one I'm interested in is whether it was really a case of Reciprocity or Reciprocal Altruism, as Spock said.
You get the impression that those thirty or forty villagers were the entire population of the planet. Vaal forbade them from breeding obviously to keep their numbers under control. Why? Was it just so he could more easily control them? Or did Vaal realize that with their extended lifespans, they would soon overrun the planet if he didn't keep them in check?
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Post by THE CAKE IS A LIE! on Sept 7, 2008 11:46:07 GMT -6
Wow, I've never seen this episode... or I don't remember it but either way thank you CBS.
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Post by andrewlee on Sept 7, 2008 18:43:47 GMT -6
Atoz. You came up with some good ideas/points on this one. I do think after Vaal sanction murder, the enterprise crew was justified in destroying him to protect themselves. You need to see this one Zack!
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Sept 9, 2008 8:22:02 GMT -6
If Vaal had really been an Artificially Intelligent machine with the best interests of the Vaalians at heart, it should have been an easy matter to communicate with him and inform him that the Enterprise had no intention of interfering with the culture. Since Vaal made no attempt to do this, and since he was willing to kill to protect his little tin-pot dictatorship, Kirk really had no choice.
It's also interesting that Akuta was so willing to go along with what Vaal instructed him to do (although you do see from his face that he was troubled by it). This indicates that the people of Vaal had no opportunity to develop any kind of moral system.
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Post by mgomez on Apr 26, 2009 7:00:16 GMT -6
I would have to agree with the others, it WAS a violation of the prime directive, but it was also about their safety.
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Apr 27, 2009 7:57:50 GMT -6
Ah, but is your personal safety reason enough to violate the Prime Directive? What do you think? Isn't that part of the Oath?
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