Luke
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Post by Luke on Jun 23, 2010 11:23:30 GMT -6
This is where we first me the Romulans. ONe thing that always nagged at me though is if the bird of prey was invisible to sensors how did they detect it at all?
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Post by andrewlee on Jun 24, 2010 11:54:04 GMT -6
I remember they said that they could indirectly detect the Romulan War Bird with motion sensors, but this very was inaccurate and while cloaked it could easily be lost! When they did detect motion from the cloaked Romulan War bird, they could not pinpoint it's exact location! They did find it when it went into the comet.
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jun 25, 2010 7:48:02 GMT -6
But how do "motion detectors" work if the sensors can't see the object at all?
We all know that although space is a vacuum, it is still filled with micrometeorite dust, hydrogen atoms, and so on. Any object which has mass will still affect the particles around it, either drawing them towards it or pushing them aside. I imagine this movement is what the sensors were picking up, and this was why the exact location of the warbird was difficult to spot.
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Post by andrewlee on Jun 25, 2010 13:56:03 GMT -6
But how do "motion detectors" work if the sensors can't see the object at all? We all know that although space is a vacuum, it is still filled with micrometeorite dust, hydrogen atoms, and so on. Any object which has mass will still affect the particles around it, either drawing them towards it or pushing them aside. I imagine this movement is what the sensors were picking up, and this was why the exact location of the warbird was difficult to spot. I was thinking the very same thing, but didn't post it at the time! The Enterprise -D used this concept to track Picard's old ship "The Star Gazer" When Ferengi used the mind control device to get revenge on him by having him re-live the battle of Maxia by attacking the Enterprise-D with the Star Gazer using "The Picard Maneuver". ( A very short burst of high warp to apear in 2 places at once.) Mr Data made the calculations and the Star Gazer was caught in the Enterprise-D's tractor beam.
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jun 28, 2010 7:26:18 GMT -6
This in turn makes me wonder how the Next Generation Romulan ships solved this problem. Apparently they can't even be detected with motion sensors. But I'm not an engineer.
This was a good episode, though, wasn't it? The only drawback was that we never learned the name of that Romulan commander. Nor the centurion, really. The only name we got was Decius, the snooty little lieutenant. (And doesn't he bear a striking resemblance to Stonn, the guy who took Spock's place in T'Pring's affection in "Amok Time"?)
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Luke
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Post by Luke on Jun 30, 2010 11:27:31 GMT -6
I thought there wasa reason I took an instant dislike to STonn! The thing that made this so interesting was Kirk weighin the odds and tryin g to decide if the Enterprise had a chance against the warbird.
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jul 2, 2010 7:50:44 GMT -6
When you think about it, It would have been so easy to let the ship go (it was unidentified, after all) and report it to Starfleet. The Federation could then lodge a protest or something. Kirk took a big risk in pursuing it.
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jul 2, 2010 7:52:00 GMT -6
I thought there wasa reason I took an instant dislike to STonn! And if anybody asks you that trivia question, Lawrence Montaigne was the first actor to play both a Romulan and a Vulcan.
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Luke
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Post by Luke on Jul 7, 2010 11:21:40 GMT -6
I'm pretty sure Ive run across that question before. They give the answer as Mark Lenard.
But anyway getting back to Romulans did you notice how small the neutral zone seemed to be? I mean the warbird didnt even have warp drive so it couldn't have been very wide.
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jul 9, 2010 7:51:28 GMT -6
Mark Lenard still has the distinction of being the first actor to play a Romulan, a Vulcan, and a Klingon!
About the Neutral Zone, I was noticing that when I watched it earlier this week. There were eight outposts, each one apparently five minutes apart at "maximum" speed according to Sulu, which we'll take to be warp six. If you do the math, that works out to something like five million kilometers apart. So the Neutral Zone must be around just that one star system.
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rosetto
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Post by rosetto on Jul 9, 2010 21:58:47 GMT -6
Unfortunately, most writers are not engineers. Math wasn't their strong suit which is why they write. I know this and can say it because I am both, a writer and and engineer. Gene was good at keeping tight reins on the writing staff (tighter than any others at the time) which is why there is so much consistancy in Star Trek. What is sad is the later writers (VOY, ENT) had much more documentation (The Bible) and still couldn't keep it straight. As a writer, I enjoy new visions and concepts, but as an engineer these all have to fit nicely into a universe that makes sense; where two plus two is the same as two times two.
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rosetto
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Post by rosetto on Jul 9, 2010 22:13:38 GMT -6
But how do "motion detectors" work if the sensors can't see the object at all? We all know that although space is a vacuum, it is still filled with micrometeorite dust, hydrogen atoms, and so on. Any object which has mass will still affect the particles around it, either drawing them towards it or pushing them aside. I imagine this movement is what the sensors were picking up, and this was why the exact location of the warbird was difficult to spot. Gosh, Has 'anyone' read Leon Myerson's essay on the Technology of Star Trek (1988)? The physics involved here are unlike what we know today. Sensors are probing matter and energy from a different direction entirely. Myerson describes it as a totally different physical dimension and it fits the bill quite well. I have heard many people dismiss this essay, but I for one believe that if we ever do invent FTL machines that they will evolve from a new form of technology (as Myerson describes). So, as for the mysterious 'cloaked' Romulan BoP, the Enterprise sensors could very well 'detect' some kind of disturbance without being able to pin-point its exact 3D + T location. Think of it like a sheet stretched out vertically in between you and another person. There's a strong light cming from behind the other person which casts a shadow oto the sheet. The shadow is distorted and you can't quite make out the details but you are aware that the other person is over there... somewhere...
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Luke
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Post by Luke on Jul 10, 2010 8:04:27 GMT -6
Think of it like a sheet stretched out vertically in between you and another person. There's a strong light cming from behind the other person which casts a shadow oto the sheet. The shadow is distorted and you can't quite make out the details but you are aware that the other person is over there... somewhere... I dont mean to be picky but your analogy doesnt work very well. You could still see the shadow well enough to follow the person back and forth and even shoot at him if you had to!
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jul 12, 2010 7:23:04 GMT -6
Gosh, Has 'anyone' read Leon Myerson's essay on the Technology of Star Trek (1988)? I've never even heard of it. Why don't you tell us about it? You shouldn't assume that everyone else has read everything you have, or knows everything you know. I think that's what I said.
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Luke
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Post by Luke on Jul 14, 2010 11:18:22 GMT -6
About the Neutral Zone, I was noticing that when I watched it earlier this week. There were eight outposts, each one apparently five minutes apart at "maximum" speed according to Sulu, which we'll take to be warp six. If you do the math, that works out to something like five million kilometers apart. So the Neutral Zone must be around just that one star system. I didnt calculate it but I noticed the same thing. I was wondering why the warbird didnt have warp engines. My theroy was that they wanted to test the weapons systems and cloaking device, but didnt want to lose the warp engine if they didnt work. so the warbird was towed across the neutral zone by a tender or something. But if it really was so small the problem disappears. It didnt have werp drive because it didnt need it. Maybe Rosetto will explain this for us, too.
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