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Post by andrewlee on Jan 1, 2010 22:57:00 GMT -6
According to Memory Alpha, the Temporal Prime Directive was a Federation policy, an extention of the Prime Directive itself. There's no mention of any other powers recognizing it, so I stand corrected. Now we know for sure. It's best to look something up rather than not being sure what the correct answer is.
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jan 2, 2010 9:13:18 GMT -6
It wasn't a completely alternate universe; it was still the Star Trek universe we knew ...At least rebooting it the way they did, they didn't invalidate the last forty-plus years of Star Trek history. But now we're in the same universe, albeit with a few major changes, and anything can happen again. [coughs politely] The same universe, albeit with a few MAJOR changes? Like everything in Kirk's life? I don't want to be argumentative, Edify, but you and I obviously have a very large disagreement about what makes a "change". But since you're not a TOS fan, I can understand how you might not think this is as important as I do.
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edify
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Post by edify on Jan 2, 2010 15:15:12 GMT -6
Well, first I want to make it clear that although The Original Series is not my favorite of the franchise, I am still a fan. The Original Series will always hold a special place in every genuine fan's heart -- after all, it's the show that started the entire franchise. It would be like calling yourself a lover of music but never listening to Beethoven or Mozart. Also, I don't mind a good debate, as long as it's kept civil. I actually rather enjoy them. But if you'd rather not, I'll respect that. However, that being said... I don't mind changes occurring as long as it has a logical explanation. And Nero is certainly that. After all, not *everything* in Kirk's life has changed. His parents had the same name, and Kirk was still named after his grandparents (his maternal grandfather, James, and his paternal grandfather, Tiberius). But the thing to understand is that just by Nero's presence in Kirk's timeline, a good number of things changed. For instance, the attack on the Kelvan by Nero caused Winona to go into premature labor, precipitating Jim Kirk to be born in space rather than in Iowa -- but he still grew up in Iowa. Plus, just because there was no mention of Jim's brother doesn't mean it was "removed" from canon. In fact, according to Memory Alpha, George Samuel Kirk was supposed to be in the new movie (and apparently is in a deleted scene). There are some other changes that can easily be explained away. And yes, I understand it's pretty unlikely that Cadet Kirk would be transferred to captain so easily, but hey, look at Wesley Crusher in Star Trek: The Next Generation. Riker and the two Trois would have never been rescued had it not been for Wesley ("Menage a Troi") and the Enterprise, and quite possibily the Federation, would have been taken over by a hostile race had it not been for Wesley ("The Game"). So while it would be far-fetched in real life, in the Star Trek universe literally anything is possible. Plus, Gene Roddenberry himself was not above changing already established canon for the sake of telling a good story.
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Arkroyal
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I'm a historian, not an engineer![ss:Federation]
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Post by Arkroyal on Jan 3, 2010 9:04:54 GMT -6
Wesley is maybe not the best example considering how he annoyed everyone. I'll just sit back and watch the debate - I can't really get involved being so unfamiliar with the old series as I am (******, I want to watch some TOS!) but the only major change I see is the removal of Kirk's father. (pre-explodingtheentirecadetfleetandVulcan) And "major" may be a little underestimating it. And of course, as I've said, I may be wrong in that as I am unfamiliar with TOS except through Memory Alpha!
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edify
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Post by edify on Jan 3, 2010 13:48:24 GMT -6
Wesley is maybe not the best example considering how he annoyed everyone. I'll just sit back and watch the debate - I can't really get involved being so unfamiliar with the old series as I am (******, I want to watch some TOS!) but the only major change I see is the removal of Kirk's father. (pre-explodingtheentirecadetfleetandVulcan) And "major" may be a little underestimating it. And of course, as I've said, I may be wrong in that as I am unfamiliar with TOS except through Memory Alpha! Well, if you're interested you can actually watch the entire library of Original Series episodes on Hulu.
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Arkroyal
Lt. Commander
I'm a historian, not an engineer![ss:Federation]
Posts: 440
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Post by Arkroyal on Jan 3, 2010 16:53:52 GMT -6
Wesley is maybe not the best example considering how he annoyed everyone. I'll just sit back and watch the debate - I can't really get involved being so unfamiliar with the old series as I am (******, I want to watch some TOS!) but the only major change I see is the removal of Kirk's father. (pre-explodingtheentirecadetfleetandVulcan) And "major" may be a little underestimating it. And of course, as I've said, I may be wrong in that as I am unfamiliar with TOS except through Memory Alpha! Well, if you're interested you can actually watch the entire library of Original Series episodes on Hulu. You'd be my new favourite person IF I were American. But I'm not so I can't use Hulu yet. I've left my e-mail address so they can tell me when stuff comes up for elsewhere. Fingers crossed for Star Trek - I can't afford DVDs at the moment. (Shame people haven't been able to upload on YouTube...)
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jan 4, 2010 8:21:24 GMT -6
I think we're talking past one another here. I wouldn't have minded new actors as long as I could believe they were the same people I've been watching all these years. They weren't. They acted more like parodies. The whole design of the Enterprise was different, even the uniforms were just different enough to be grating. And if they had really meant to show respect for the original (as so many people claim), why not fix the timeline at the end of the movie -- we would have ended up with something similar to "Yesterday's Enterprise", where everyone asked, "What just happened?" That would have been cool.
But if they were going to create entirely new takes on the relationships between all those characters, I would have much prefered they just create NEW characters. I wouldn't have had any objection, then.
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edify
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Post by edify on Jan 4, 2010 11:56:16 GMT -6
Well, if you're interested you can actually watch the entire library of Original Series episodes on Hulu. You'd be my new favourite person IF I were American. But I'm not so I can't use Hulu yet. I've left my e-mail address so they can tell me when stuff comes up for elsewhere. Fingers crossed for Star Trek - I can't afford DVDs at the moment. (Shame people haven't been able to upload on YouTube...) Oh, sorry about that. I didn't realize Hulu was for Americans only. A shame, that. I think we're talking past one another here. I wouldn't have minded new actors as long as I could believe they were the same people I've been watching all these years. They weren't. They acted more like parodies. The whole design of the Enterprise was different, even the uniforms were just different enough to be grating. And if they had really meant to show respect for the original (as so many people claim), why not fix the timeline at the end of the movie -- we would have ended up with something similar to "Yesterday's Enterprise", where everyone asked, "What just happened?" That would have been cool. But if they were going to create entirely new takes on the relationships between all those characters, I would have much prefered they just create NEW characters. I wouldn't have had any objection, then. But see, I didn't think they were parodies at all. I thought Karl Urban did a fantastic job as Dr. McCoy. And there were times when I thought Zachary Quinto was almost indistinguishable from the original Spock. In profile, he looks just like Leonardy Nimoy did as Spock (though from the front he definitely looks different). Now, I was disappointed that rather than a Japanese actor they got a Korean actor for Sulu, John Cho. But as Sulu, I thought he did a great job, too. The only one I wasn't really happy with was Anton Yelchin. Even though he's Russian, he was born in America so he didn't have the accent. It really seemed like his accent was forced, rather than natural like I felt Simon Pegg was able to do as Scotty. Other than that, I thought the performances were great. Except for Kirk, of course. Chris Pine didn't imitate Kirk very closely, but I thought that was an improvement, to be honest. All I can say is that just like any other beloved characters of fiction, if a new person gets cast in the role (Sherlock Holmes being a recent example), then it's open for the actor/actress' interpretation of how to play that role. Leonard Nimoy was extremely happy with Quinto's performance as Spock, as were the other living cast members with their new counterparts. So why can't we be? In fact, the people who were closest to Gene Roddenberry were all in agreement that Gene would have loved this movie. So why can't we?
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jan 6, 2010 8:47:25 GMT -6
All I can say is that just like any other beloved characters of fiction, if a new person gets cast in the role (Sherlock Holmes being a recent example), then it's open for the actor/actress' interpretation of how to play that role. But what if that "interpretation" doesn't ring true to the character, the way the author wrote him? From what little I've seen, the new "interpretation" of Sherlock Holmes doesn't ring true to me, either. I don't much care what Nimoy or the others think. I can only judge it by the way it appears to me.
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