Sammerio
Ensign
"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination."[ss:Federation]
Posts: 59
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Post by Sammerio on Sept 18, 2009 20:04:02 GMT -6
'It's a warning that the power of the resonator can be overcome by peace.' Says Captain Picard. I remember reading this thread earlier today, and I'm watching Gambit Part 2(Which is just ending now.) and they mentioned that, and I felt the need to let people know.
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Atoz 77
Vice Admiral
[M:0]
[ss:Insurrection]
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Post by Atoz 77 on Sept 21, 2009 8:06:50 GMT -6
Yes, the Resonator. I had a real problem with that episode. If I remember correctly, it was made of stone, which means that if it's a technological artifact, the components would have to be bored into the matrix, presumably by nanotechnology or something, it would have to have a power supply which would last thousands of years, and all of this would have to be invisible to tricorders. If the Vulcans had this kind of technology thousands of years ago, they must be a stagnant culture, as far as science is concerned, which contradicts everything we know about them.
If it's not a technological artifact, it must be a "magical" one, which also contradicts a lot of what Star Trek has been telling us. Either way, the Resonator is a mess. That's another reason I placed this episode in the Y files.
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Post by andrewlee on Sept 21, 2009 8:13:08 GMT -6
I agree this is a good topic for the Y files.
If the device didn't have nano technology, it could have been made out of certain materials that amplified the psionic powers of the user. It could be made out of a combination of rare minerals. If this is so, it could be mistaken for being magical as well.
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Sept 26, 2009 7:47:42 GMT -6
With all respect, I think this is just arguing in a circle. Let me digress a second to explain what I think is the difference between magic and technology. In the Harry Potter series, for example, children have been taught how to do magic for generations, and it always works the same way. It's repeatable and consistent. They teach the Theory of Magic, and once you understand that, you can even invent your own spells. That's what I would call technology. I may not understand the laws of nature behind it, the theory may not even make sense in this universe, but in the J.K. Rowling universe, it works the same every time.
On the other hand, if you just happen to find a "crystal" which "resonates psychic energy", as far as you know it's the only such crystal in the entire universe, and you have no idea at all how it works -- that is magic. If the ancient Vulcans understood how and why the resonator worked, that would be technology, and we have a right to ask why they have made no further progress with this technology in thousands of years. If it was just "magic" on the the other hand, it would be the equivalent of "the ancient Egyptians used psychic levitation to build the pyramids", which is pure baloney.
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Post by macawol on Sept 26, 2009 7:53:55 GMT -6
I would think Technology is gadget-based, no matter how small or weird the gadget is.
I don't really believe in magic as something you can learn, I believe in psychic abilities as something you have and can refine, and if you need a focus, whether it is mental or placebo, it is still just a psychic power.
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Post by andrewlee on Sept 26, 2009 8:53:15 GMT -6
Technology to people who don't understand it would seem like magic. just imagine going back in time a few centuries and using a flashlight. People would be stunned and shocked by it and call it magic. They might even want to put you on trial for witchcraft depending on where you went to in the past, but this is just hypothetical!
I believe that psychic abilities do exist. Some may call them good or evil or not even make such a judgment about them.
There are many things that exist that are yet to be explained! I await plausible explanations, evidence, and proving or disproving of them.
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Post by macawol on Sept 26, 2009 10:46:04 GMT -6
A Plausible explanations... You will never get that... We in the Illuminati will ensure you continue to live your life in fear of the unknown *Bwahaha* *bwahaha* *Cough* *Bwahahaha*
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Post by andrewlee on Sept 26, 2009 12:35:14 GMT -6
A Plausible explanations... You will never get that... We in the Illuminati will ensure you continue to live your life in fear of the unknown *Bwahaha* *bwahaha* *Cough* *Bwahahaha* ..... ;D Understood, I'm meaning that plausible is more subjective here than absolute when examining possible evidence. I'm skeptical about many things, but don't completely discount them either. With some things evidence could be interpreted in different ways and it comes down to a person have or not having faith that something exists or not. Sometimes there is no evidence, but only testimonials from people who either believe or dis-believe in paranormal things.
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Post by macawol on Sept 26, 2009 15:22:23 GMT -6
Aah, now you have reached the scientifically subject matter, can it be replicated in a controlled situation? No?!?! Bleeding Jack Daniels, then.... Is it real then?
I have no evidence of this, but I have experienced the following: A ghost walking through me. Reading someone's thoughts (short distance). Reading someone's emotions (short and very long distance). Summoning. Weather Prediction. Sensing others (short and medium distance).
Sure I don't expect any to take it serious, because I have no prof and it is just too unbelievable.
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Post by andrewlee on Sept 26, 2009 15:32:03 GMT -6
Interesting Mac! About your experiences. I won't even try to offer any explanations thought I have many theories about such things!
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kijuro
Lt. Commander
[ss:Borg]
Posts: 448
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Post by kijuro on Sept 27, 2009 10:57:38 GMT -6
I think that as far as evidence goes, it's tricky. Vulcans almost never lie, so perhaps their word should count for something, but surely a Vulcan can be tricked by a strong will?
Betazoids, I'm not sure.
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Sept 28, 2009 7:30:34 GMT -6
Technology to people who don't understand it would seem like magic. You're missing the point. The ancient Vulcans must have understood how to make the Resonator. If they didn't, if they just found it lying around somewhere, then it literally was "magic".
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Sept 28, 2009 7:33:29 GMT -6
I think that as far as evidence goes, it's tricky. Vulcans almost never lie, so perhaps their word should count for something, but surely a Vulcan can be tricked by a strong will? Betazoids, I'm not sure. I'm not suggesting Spock lied, only that, as you say, maybe he was mistaken. But even so, I'm not going out on a limb and discounting it. I'm just asking -- from what we've seen on the series, how reliable do you think it is?
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Post by macawol on Sept 28, 2009 7:41:51 GMT -6
Every Andorian knows that Vulcans are lying cheating cold dustheads.
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Post by andrewlee on Sept 28, 2009 10:57:24 GMT -6
Every Andorian knows that Vulcans are lying cheating cold dustheads. This is very true in the Enterprise era no doubt due to the Romulan's secret influence and to their plans for re-unification which was thwarted by Humans. It was Archer who found the "Kir Shara" . The device that held the true teachings of Surak. This led to the re-awakening of the Vulcans and sown the seeds of the Earth Romulan war a few years later. The Vulcan establishment in this time period persecuted and stigmatized Vulcans who used their mental abilities like doing mind melds.
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