Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jul 25, 2007 7:42:31 GMT -6
I've always thought it a little bit incongruous that Vulcans (if we can take Spock as a typical example) seem so gifted with empathic abilities, and at the same time have such strong cultural blocks against emotions. On the other hand, maybe its because of their natural telepathic talents that they were forced to develop such strong mental discipline in the first place. What do you think?
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Post by gravity on Jul 25, 2007 19:38:13 GMT -6
Cause and effect. I doubt when the Vulcans first started following the teachings of Surak it was with the intention of gaining certain mental abilities. It just kinda came with the territory. Like Worf said in Deep Space Nine, "Great men do not seek power. Power is thrust upon them." Same goes for the Vulcans.
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jul 27, 2007 7:47:31 GMT -6
Are you saying that suppressing their emotions is what CAUSED them to develop those mental powers? I had it the other way around!
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jul 27, 2007 7:48:43 GMT -6
-- I'm a skeptic when it comes to the paranormal. I really dislike all these so-called "reality based" shows on lately ("Ghost Hunters", "Psychic Detectives", "Medium", "The Ghost Whisperer"), but I have to admit the ability to perform mind melds came in really handy from time to time on Star Trek. At least Star Trek didn't treat these things as some kind of "magic" that anybody could just wake up one day and have. Spock and Troi had these abilities because they were aliens, and presumably there was something unique in the structure of their brains which enabled them to contact other people's minds.
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Post by readyroombabe on Aug 6, 2007 18:17:13 GMT -6
Vulcans were originally very emotional people. so they had to create their own meditative techniques to get over their instinctive actions. Their emotions are clearly visible in the mind meld and physical bonding they can perform. I'm not really skeptical about "magic" powers, but I do like the way they were incorporated as bits and pieces of an alien species. In my personal opinion, I think Vulcans are afraid emotions will get the better of them if they yield in to passion, which is why logic is so important to them. I mean, we've all seen Vulcans at pon farr....
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Aug 9, 2007 7:56:35 GMT -6
But I'm wondering if, instead of developing these mental powers through discipline, the Vulcans didn't have a natural affinity for them, and they suppressed their emotions as a way of reining in those powers. Look at Sybok in Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, for example. He embraced emotions, and he was able to exert a rudimentary form of mind control, which he had no compunctions against using.
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Artemus
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Post by Artemus on Aug 10, 2007 14:09:08 GMT -6
Just an observation.
There seems to be an interesting parallel betwen the Vulcans of Star Trek, and the citizens of 'Libria' from the movie 'Equilibrium' (if you don't know what I'm talking about, shame on you!). Both blamed their emotions for their past sufferings. The 'librians' came up with an emotion suppressing drug and formed an orwellian government to keep their 'savage instincts' in check. They removed everything from their society that could provoke an emotional response, even art.
The vulcans aren't so extreme, they just keep their emotions controlled with the help of meditation and other mental disciplines.
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Aug 20, 2007 8:13:14 GMT -6
Nope, "Equilibrium" doesn't ring a bell. But I think what I'm saying is that telepathic abilities seem to have a lot to do with emotional content. When you think about it, "psychic" powers have traditionally been associated with women. Most of the "psychics" and "mediums" you see in movies and television are women. So I'm saying the Vulcans had to learn to control their emotions as a way of controlling their telepathic powers.
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Jan 28, 2008 9:00:28 GMT -6
I remembered this old thread, and I thought I would bump it back to the top, since Lucius seems interested in this sort of thing. I would post more on this topic, but I'm pressed for time right now. Maybe when I come back Friday.
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Luke
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Post by Luke on Jan 29, 2008 13:23:52 GMT -6
Talking about suppressing emotions, the Romans had the philosophy of Stoicism, which basicly held that extremes of pleasure or pain are both bad for you. The ideal is to chart a balanced course in between. That means keeping your emotions under control.
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Feb 5, 2008 8:30:41 GMT -6
One of the things I like about Star Trek is that it doesn't repeat the old "you only use 10% of your brain" myth, suggesting that psychic powers are normal. Whenever there's a character with telepathy on Star Trek, he/she is an alien -- half Vulcan or half Betazed or something. The suggestion is that there may be something in their gene pool which gives them this ability, but humans obviously don't have it. The only exception I can think of is "Where No Man Has Gone Before", where Dr. Dehner implied that being tested for "Esper capacity" was normal, and even she said that it was always "quite limited."
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Luke
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Post by Luke on Feb 6, 2008 12:14:17 GMT -6
That was what I didn't like about Babylon 5, the Psi Corps. And the telepaths the Centaurans used. There was one episode where they reported the death of the emperor or soemthing, across a distance of 20 light-years or soemthing. Someone in our fan club complained shouldn't the psychic impulse have travelled at the speed of light? I told him that was like swallowing a camel and straining at a gnat!
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Feb 8, 2008 9:13:36 GMT -6
I'm not sure I follow you. Are you saying that the distance shouldn't matter?
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Luke
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Post by Luke on Feb 9, 2008 11:09:50 GMT -6
No, the opposite. Your nervous system has an electromagnetic field, but it's very feeble. When a hospital does an EEG, they have to put electrodes directly to your skull to have any chance of picking it up. If telepathy was possible over sucha vast distance, your brain would somehow have to translate your thoughts into an electromagnetic wave and then generate thousands of watts of power to send it that distance, all without frying itself in the process. The person who recieves it would haveto be sensitive enough to pick up that signal without at the same time being fried by much closer sources of EMF, like radio stations and nuclear power plants. So you have to believe that telepathy ignores some basic laws of physics, but still expect it to follow other laws. Swallowing a camel, but straining at a gnat.
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Atoz 77
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Post by Atoz 77 on Feb 11, 2008 8:35:51 GMT -6
I get what you're saying now. If you get bored at the Helm, maybe you be Chief Engineer.
I had always thought that it made perfect sense for Spock to have to make physical contact to perform a mind meld, but I couldn't state a specific reason for it. Now I can!
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